2007 Moose Lottery
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Might step on some toe's here, but I gave up on the lottery crap 3 years ago, been puttin in since it started, never drawn!! I know, pick my self up, pull up my boot straps, and give it another go would be what most would say, but I can only take so much!! Id rather pay the price on a semi-guided hunt in canada.
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If I had your money..I'ld do the same. But I don't so I look to have me a home grown trohy hunt. Not to mention..real moose hunting is alot of fun.
Been along for plenty ah hunts in Maine, just aint been the shooter. I know it's luck of the draw, but I know ah person that has been drawn 3 times and his spouse drawn twice!! Heck, I was a sub once and never saw ah single steak outta the hunt, provided the spot, provided the camp, split the gas, called the critter in, held the fellars hand on how to load it, and even helped butcher it, go figure...this real hunt taught me alot about people in general.
Seems the lottery has poor planning tah me. Ive never taken advantage of the lottery if yah know what I mean, too many doin that now, any suggestions to how it would be more fair??
Seems the lottery has poor planning tah me. Ive never taken advantage of the lottery if yah know what I mean, too many doin that now, any suggestions to how it would be more fair??
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everyone stop putting in till they get it right would be the easiest way. my family too has been passed over since the begining. doesnt seem fair to me.
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NOBODY who has had a permit, regardless of shooting a moose, gets another permit OR sub permit until everyone who hunts get their chance!
That'll fix it!
That'll fix it!
I dont think that one is humanly possible. New hunters moving to the state plus hunters that become of age each year would mess it up, would'nt it. We dont give out enough each year to meet the population growth do we?
Hey, Kenton, your the Math whiz, what's the chance of this working?
Hey, Kenton, your the Math whiz, what's the chance of this working?
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That's pretty much it Jack but there's a bit more to it.
First off, we shouldn't be paying for a chance at a permit, nor should we be paying for the permit once selected - only out of state hunters. The only reason we have a moose hunt to begin with, at least from the perspective of MDIFW, is it's a fundraiser.
The reason we have to have a fundraiser is because the money you and I pay every year for everything we use for the outdoors, hunting/fishing/trapping licenses, boat/atv/snowmobile registrations, etc., doesnt get used for "managing game". It pays to rescue idiots lost in the woods, it pays for law enforcement, it pays to provide wildlife viewing opportunities, it pays to administer the dang moose lottery, blah, blah, blah.
If the MDIFW would return to what it was originally founded for and focus only on that, we have some pretty sweet hunting and fishing.
Back to the question.
The moose hunt would be free for every license holder who wished an opportunity. As Jack said, once you are selected, your name gets taken out of the pool until all others have had a chance.
The names will be set up on a recycling basis. In other words, in theory, if you were the first to be drawn, you would be the first to have your name taken off the list. You would also be the first to have your name added back to the eligible list once all license holders had a chance.
I can tell you right now it wouldn't work because of greed and money. Money because of two reasons. One, the state isn't making any off you and me and two, greedy SOBs will want to figure out a way to "buy" another chance, just like they are doing now.
Greed would prevent it not only how I just mentioned but in other ways. Like, "it's not fair" I got drawn but the weather sucked", "it's not fair, the year I got drawn there weren't any moose", "it's not fair, I got chosen for a bad WMD", "it's not fair, it's not fair, it's not fair". And then you'll have those who if chosen and they don't bag a moose then they'll expect special treatment, yada, yada, yada.
But we all get sold the song and dance about how the moose lottery is needed because it's the only way that the state can "control" the population in each of the WMDs and how issuing permits for the number of cows vs. bulls is scientific and without it blah, blah, blah.
Maine is going the way every other state in the Union has gone before them. It's all about providing "hunting opportunities". We all get suckered in because it really sounds good. You want more "hunting opportunities"? Open up your wallet and give them everything they want - which is all your money. When it's gone, then sit down and do some serious pondering for a minute and ask yourself this one important question.
Have I bagged more moose, deer, bear, fish, mink, muskrat, woodcock, patridge, etc. since I've been paying more for "hunting opportunities"?
Then take a look at what the MDIFW is doing now compared to what they used to do to "manage wildlife". You will see, as is the case across the country, that less and less effort is going into wildlife management which is supposed to be done for hunters, fishers and trappers, and more is going into non-game programs including fighting senseless lawsuits like the one going on now to stop trapping because some dumb scavenger bird that happens to have a white head, MIGHT get caught in someone's trap.
Okay, I'm going to get down off my soapbox now and go back to work.
First off, we shouldn't be paying for a chance at a permit, nor should we be paying for the permit once selected - only out of state hunters. The only reason we have a moose hunt to begin with, at least from the perspective of MDIFW, is it's a fundraiser.
The reason we have to have a fundraiser is because the money you and I pay every year for everything we use for the outdoors, hunting/fishing/trapping licenses, boat/atv/snowmobile registrations, etc., doesnt get used for "managing game". It pays to rescue idiots lost in the woods, it pays for law enforcement, it pays to provide wildlife viewing opportunities, it pays to administer the dang moose lottery, blah, blah, blah.
If the MDIFW would return to what it was originally founded for and focus only on that, we have some pretty sweet hunting and fishing.
Back to the question.
The moose hunt would be free for every license holder who wished an opportunity. As Jack said, once you are selected, your name gets taken out of the pool until all others have had a chance.
The names will be set up on a recycling basis. In other words, in theory, if you were the first to be drawn, you would be the first to have your name taken off the list. You would also be the first to have your name added back to the eligible list once all license holders had a chance.
I can tell you right now it wouldn't work because of greed and money. Money because of two reasons. One, the state isn't making any off you and me and two, greedy SOBs will want to figure out a way to "buy" another chance, just like they are doing now.
Greed would prevent it not only how I just mentioned but in other ways. Like, "it's not fair" I got drawn but the weather sucked", "it's not fair, the year I got drawn there weren't any moose", "it's not fair, I got chosen for a bad WMD", "it's not fair, it's not fair, it's not fair". And then you'll have those who if chosen and they don't bag a moose then they'll expect special treatment, yada, yada, yada.
But we all get sold the song and dance about how the moose lottery is needed because it's the only way that the state can "control" the population in each of the WMDs and how issuing permits for the number of cows vs. bulls is scientific and without it blah, blah, blah.
Maine is going the way every other state in the Union has gone before them. It's all about providing "hunting opportunities". We all get suckered in because it really sounds good. You want more "hunting opportunities"? Open up your wallet and give them everything they want - which is all your money. When it's gone, then sit down and do some serious pondering for a minute and ask yourself this one important question.
Have I bagged more moose, deer, bear, fish, mink, muskrat, woodcock, patridge, etc. since I've been paying more for "hunting opportunities"?
Then take a look at what the MDIFW is doing now compared to what they used to do to "manage wildlife". You will see, as is the case across the country, that less and less effort is going into wildlife management which is supposed to be done for hunters, fishers and trappers, and more is going into non-game programs including fighting senseless lawsuits like the one going on now to stop trapping because some dumb scavenger bird that happens to have a white head, MIGHT get caught in someone's trap.
Okay, I'm going to get down off my soapbox now and go back to work.
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RIGHT ON, BROTHER TOM! PRAISE THE LORD!
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Stay on the box !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We need alot more of that coming out in here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This forum should be for all of us to speak our minds......... even those of us who have lost 'em !!!!!!!!
AMEN............
We need alot more of that coming out in here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This forum should be for all of us to speak our minds......... even those of us who have lost 'em !!!!!!!!
AMEN............
It is just ah money game for sure, and I agree with your theory, but is it mathmaticly possible to recycle the drawings? In any case, well said Kenton, and yes AB, forums should be loud voices for outdoorsman, too many fake personalities these days, say it like yah mean it and make these people listen. These referendums that strip the state of jobs and revenue should'nt even make it past the round file. If a man cant speak his mind, how's he gonna be heard.
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I think it is mathmatically possible to deal with names. The math is actually the easy part, being that I as a math major. The difficulty comes in making people happy.
No matter how it is done, not everyone will be happy. Herein lies one of the bigger problems facing the moose lottery - trust. Let's keep it simple and realistic. Those who have been selected, probably more than once, have very few problems with the lottery process. Those who have applied year after year and have never been selected have a complaint and justifiably so.
You'll never please everyone so the simplest form of recycling the better. I would imagine the first complaint would come in this voice, "I got drawn and got a permit but I didn't get a moose. You mean I now gotta wait until I recycle around again? That sucks!"
Even if you wanted to get into a weighted algorythmic formula to determine a fair draw, I believe it would be better than the present method but mind you on the one side you have fairness. On the other, you have greed and money. Which one will win.
Consider these to enter into a algorythm:
1. Hunter's age
2. Number of years licensed
3. Year selected for moose permit
4. Was the hunter successful?
5. Bull or cow?
6. WMD selected to
7. Success rate for each WMD
These are a few of the things that could be used to determine the next placement of recycling your name. Each category would carry weight, determined by a group of hunters not biologists or politicians or any political entities like SAM or Maine Hunting Today.
A formula would be created and monitored. The bottom line here is EVERYONE will get a moose permit EVENTUALLY!
To come up with a starting point, the same criteria can be used in the first round of selections. So, in theory, anyone who has gotten a moose in the past, need not apply.
Here's some food for thought. At one time a member of the standing joint committee for MDIFW suggested putting the moose lottery into the hands of the Maine Lottery Commission. Thank God that never happened.
Just the other day the Maine Piglet Book: An Analysis of Excess Government Spending in Maine, listed this: $4,749,705 in the Governor’s Budget for Lottery Operations as part of Maine's wasteful spending.
What do you think would have happened to all the money that is collected for moose lottery applications, etc.?
Anyway, some things to think about. For me the bottom line is simple. Take the money out of this equation and every Maine resident who buys a hunting license will probably get a chance to bag a moose sometime before they die! (That's why age is a factor).
If they want to raise money to better provide for wildlife viewing then have a GD bakesale, just like the rest of us do!
No matter how it is done, not everyone will be happy. Herein lies one of the bigger problems facing the moose lottery - trust. Let's keep it simple and realistic. Those who have been selected, probably more than once, have very few problems with the lottery process. Those who have applied year after year and have never been selected have a complaint and justifiably so.
You'll never please everyone so the simplest form of recycling the better. I would imagine the first complaint would come in this voice, "I got drawn and got a permit but I didn't get a moose. You mean I now gotta wait until I recycle around again? That sucks!"
Even if you wanted to get into a weighted algorythmic formula to determine a fair draw, I believe it would be better than the present method but mind you on the one side you have fairness. On the other, you have greed and money. Which one will win.
Consider these to enter into a algorythm:
1. Hunter's age
2. Number of years licensed
3. Year selected for moose permit
4. Was the hunter successful?
5. Bull or cow?
6. WMD selected to
7. Success rate for each WMD
These are a few of the things that could be used to determine the next placement of recycling your name. Each category would carry weight, determined by a group of hunters not biologists or politicians or any political entities like SAM or Maine Hunting Today.
A formula would be created and monitored. The bottom line here is EVERYONE will get a moose permit EVENTUALLY!
To come up with a starting point, the same criteria can be used in the first round of selections. So, in theory, anyone who has gotten a moose in the past, need not apply.
Here's some food for thought. At one time a member of the standing joint committee for MDIFW suggested putting the moose lottery into the hands of the Maine Lottery Commission. Thank God that never happened.
Just the other day the Maine Piglet Book: An Analysis of Excess Government Spending in Maine, listed this: $4,749,705 in the Governor’s Budget for Lottery Operations as part of Maine's wasteful spending.
What do you think would have happened to all the money that is collected for moose lottery applications, etc.?
Anyway, some things to think about. For me the bottom line is simple. Take the money out of this equation and every Maine resident who buys a hunting license will probably get a chance to bag a moose sometime before they die! (That's why age is a factor).
If they want to raise money to better provide for wildlife viewing then have a GD bakesale, just like the rest of us do!
ray3:
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:fear:And you thought he was just another scarey face!:fear:
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