[Moose]

If you’re a hunter and you get drawn is there any chance you’ll let someone else shoot the moose? Not me my tag my shot. Both times I’ve been drawn the subpermitees carried guns but knew that they wouldn’t get the shot but if something happened to my gun there would be another one available to take the shot with. In one situation on my first hunt my scope messed up while we were closing in on a bull and I traded guns with my subpermitee but days latter I ended up taking my first bull with my own rifle after I had a chance to resight the gun in. Both my subpermitees had bear tags incase that opportunity presented itself.

I’ve heard the argument that the subpermitee is to make sure that there is at least two people to get the moose out of the woods but that is a lame argument because it takes more then two most times anyways plus if you go moose hunting with out a plan on how to get the critter out you shouldn’t even be in the woods in the first place. It seems to be that most people who use the subpermitee system to kill a moose our using folks names who will never hunt anyways to just increase their chance of getting drawn. Has anyone ever suggested that the subpermittee system be done away with? That may make it a fairer system for Maine Residents to get drawn.

 

[Maineboy]

I think that some people enter their entire families and willing friends in the lottery, pay all the entry fees and then name themselves as subpermitee, just to increase their chances in the draw. Lots of others consider the hunt as a once in a lifetime opportunity and like sharing it with a good friend or relative. I've gone moose hunting twice as a subpermitee when my step-father lucked out in the lottery. He is the man who taught me to hunt as an eager youngster. He's getting along in years now and I really appreciated spending that time in the woods with him. We scored once, he let me take the shot, but it was definately a shared experience. Since he said he's officially done hunting moose, (so he says)I name my son as subpermitee and if I were drawn, would give him the opportunity to shoot if one presented itself.
BTW, you don't have to name a subpermitee if you so choose.

 

[Cap'n Jack Duggins]

Moose, I have put in for a moose tag for 26 years now and never got my own permit. I have been a sub-permitee once, with my wife. She fired, gun was off its mark, I dropped the moose and she ended up finishing it off. Just think if no one else carried a gun and the bull decided to charge her!

Another one, in 1980, the first legal moose season since 1940, my dad was subpermitee. Last day of the hunt, they spot a nice bull and stop the truck. Dad is out of the truck and ready to shoot, moose is about to step off the logging road and dad hears this: zzzzzzzzzippp! Moose take another step and is about to disappear into the thicket. BANG! Dad shot cause the dipstick hadn't cleared his rifle from its case, let alone loaded it.
The moose landed the exact distance that the 2 X 10's would reach from the road.

We have had many folks die from heart attacks trying to recover a nice buck on their own.
Also, it allows one to stay with the animal and one to go back to the truck and get help.

I think if anything should change, it should be that if you have won a permit, whether you shoot a moose or not, you should wait 10 years before applying again. Not two.

 

[mefishme]

i am the subpermittee for my dad's girlfriend, we have a bull tag in zone 14 in oct. She is a hunter. BUt she is not a long range shooter, I am very good at calling moose, and i shoot alot with the 300 mag that i am taking. She is gonna use a 3006, plenty of gun for moose, aim for teh hump and down they go, but as a meatcutter, the hump is alot of bone and bullet is throwned in there it looks like a grenade went off in there, i like to shooot for the neck or lung/heart shot. But the best place to shoot a moose is in the head, big head. Hold on the base of the ears and sqeeze. I am thinking of mounting the moose myself too.

 

[Cap'n Jack Duggins]

If you shoot the heart/lungs be prepaired for a LONG drag to the truck. They can run a long way even when heart shot.

If you hit a moose in the head you may find it challenging to mount using that cape.
Shoot 8" down from the top of the hump and the moose will fall in it's tracks. As far as losing meat? You won't be able to eat it all in a year anyway.

 

[mefishme]

i know the head shot is outa the question for mounting. but i am leaning on a hump shot.. mfm

 

[Moose]

Maybe some of these permit holders shouldn’t be in the woods. I’d be curious to know how many wives, girlfriends, mothers and grandmothers would put in if their son, husband, brother etc. weren’t attempting to increase there odds a bit. I know in 97 I met a guy in the woods moose hunting (his wife had the permit and she was sitting in the truck knitting, this is illegal) who told me this was his 5th moose hunt as a subpermittee. He basically entered every non hunter in his family to get drawn. As a non resident it doesn’t matter to me cause I can buy as many chances as I want to get drawn ( I hate that rule by the way) I know when I was a Maine Resident a number of years ago I took a hunter safety class when I first moved to the state about a third of the class was kids, I was the only adult male and the rest was women.
The other issue that some of you may not be aware of but some of the resident permits are actually going to non resident subpermittees. For example if I was running “Moose’s Guide Service” (which I’m not) and I have some clients from out of state who are interested in a moose hunt I submit them as subpermittes on as many applications as I can so my mother, my two sisters, my cousin all put in and I just give them a cut of the guide fee if they get drawn and the subpermittee gets his moose.
In my view now that the moose has been hunted for a number of years it would seem that they are much more skittish and harder to find. I know during the Oct Season last year I was one of the few with a Bull tag and middle of the week there was still lots of anterless hunters still cruising the roads looking for a cow.
I guess my point was that if you made it a hunter only draw and not a hunter with all his or her friends who are willing to tromp around the woods for a week draw that it might be a bit fairer.

As far as shot placement Moose in 97 I took with a spine shot it was at about 25 feet it dropped like a ton of bricks. Last years Bull was a heart shot at about 175-200yards with a couple of follow ups one breaking a front leg. He went 30 yards and dropped. My view is first shot take out heart and lungs and follow up shots spine if you can get it otherwise take out front shoulder. It’s helpful if they are not alert to where you are at and you remain as still as possible till the animal is down. We ran the other 5 moose out of the area after mine dropped because they milled around not knowing where the danger was coming from.

 

[strings54]

sub permittee

i have been putting in for a moose permit in maine and new hampshire for ever and finally was drawn to hunt in NH this year. from the moment i learned of my luck i knew that my 19 year old son would be my sub and the shooter. i got more of a thrill watching him dump the 580 lb cow he took, than i could ever explain. i have had the luck to be a sub permittee twice and niether time even carried a weapon. i guess for me the thrill is in the hunt and at the moment of the shot it doesn't matter whose finger is on the trigger. silly , maybe but thats who i am.

 

[aroostookbasser]

Selling your permit should be a crime !!!!!

Interesting sidebar to this debate is the fact that there is a "blackmarket" in moose permits. Although not really a blackmarket operation..it is a backdoor cottage industry. Up here in the county most guides know at least 10 to 20 out of state hunters looking to bag that moose. So the unscrupulous ones recruit as many people as they can to put in for one. When drawn they change the subpermitte to the out of state hunter and "sell" the chance for about $2000. They agree to give away the moose in lieu of payment and the hunt goes on. They go on the hunt for legal reasons but the subpermitte kills the moose...they just go to tag it. Then they can "gift" the moose to the payer. Happens all the time.....

I've been approached at least a dozen times........

 

[kenton6]

Is this one of those, "Don't ask, don't tell" operations? As long as money is being made, we'll look the other way?

 

[stweedie]

Looking at it from an economic standpoint. It costs $$ to put in for a moose permit. With several people wanting to shoot a moose they pay the cost of their friends/family to apply (This is not illegal). In my experience a moose isn't the most challenging animal to hunt, and the whole season is to control the population in an attempt to reduct moose/car collisions. The State will never (in my mind) change the policy with the amount of money they are making with the current system.

 

[kenton6]

This is true Tweedie! It is no secret that many states now are trying to introduce game species that they can control in limited numbers in order to rake in the big bucks(money) by holding raffles and lotteries for a handful of permits.

In Tennessee next year they plan on have 5 elk permits available. Four will be via lottery and the other will be auctioned off - the money to go toward elk restoration. The state anticipates in excess of 20,000 applicants at $10 a pop for the four permits by lottery. The raffle will probably see at least $15,000.

You tell me which is more profitable for the state. To get the moose herd up large enough so that moose licenses could be bought like deer licenses or keep up with the lottery?

 

[aroostookbasser]

I'm not speaking about family ...I am speaking about a backdoor way for out of state hunters to get their trophy.

 

[kenton6]

I understand that AB. I think I got off topic a tad. Sorry!

 

[aroostookbasser]

I know ...sorry. Sore issue with me. Think we should close the loop hole.

 

[stweedie]

But..... Take myself for instance. I was born and raised in the Bangor area, and live in NH now. All my family still lives in Maine. I'd be flippin p#ssed is you made it so my brother couldn't list me as a sub-permittee.

 

[strings54]

tweedie, i think what AB is so frustrated with is the selling of the sub permittee rights. i know that i have been aproached numerous times to actually procure the sub permittee rights for money in the past from some of my clients looking to shoot a moose. i think it would be very tough to enforce a rule that disallowed this practise . i personally would not engage in this type of activiety. nor would i guide someone, who i knew for a fact was involved in it. strings

 

[aroostookbasser]

Thanks Strings.....

 

[stweedie]

I guess I just don't see the reason to get so upset about the whole thing. Don't you have to list the sub-permittee when you submit the application? When we put in for the drawing all of us get together and list each other as sub-permittees so if one of us gets one we're all hunting together during Moose season. AB your going to have a coronary if you keep getting so wound up about all of these "little" things. People will find loopholes no matter what the laws are.

 

[aroostookbasser]

You can list Aunt Susan on the application and then change it at the last minute...once you sell the permit...... just ticks me off that I can't get drawn......but I can buy a permit anytime!!!!